LOOT RULE UPDATE:

DKP---Zero sum DKP will prevail as our loot system going foward.

A raid member is entitled to 1 item per raid unless one of the following conditions exsists:

1) Specialty item that only that class can use.

2) Officer feels that item is in need for that toon will be case by case depending on upgrade/toon needs.

3) Same order of importance:
MAIN SPEC
OFF SPEC
IF NO ONE TAKES D/E AND PLACED IN GUILD BANK



ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

1) Only 1 trophy per week will be awarded to each member

2) Members can negotiate trades of a looted item amongst themselves.

3) New amount of DKP per boss kill is 10 DKP and item cost will remain the same at 250 per item so spend your points wisely.

4) Bonus points will be awarded for progression kills and achievements and also any contributions made to the raid. (flasks,potions,feasts)

*These rules are effective immediately*

Zeiron/Zolar

I think the following should be pointed out as well.
1)Dkp is your responsibility. Do not expect anyone else to maintain your dkp, know what you should have at all times.
2)The middle of a raid is not the time to bring up dkp discrepancies. If you have not contacted Zeiron or Kattan prior to the raid about any issues your problem will not be listened to, so knock it off. If you have brought it up before raid time RESPECTFULLY remind them in a whisper if it hasn't already been taken care of.
3)Don't let upgrades go to shard. We won't get any further in 3.3 if everyone is to afraid to use dkp on upgrades. The better gear everyone has, the easier this content will be.
4)Never come to a raid expecting loot, you will just be disappointed. Be happy with what you do get. In due time you will get everything your heart desires as long as you keep showing up.
Most of this is just raiding 101, but seeing as there are so many new faces around here it needed to be pointed out. I cannot stress enough that we are a MATURE raiding guild, so keep that in mind before you even open that chat log or key up your mic.

Creymore is wise; he is obviously an experienced raider. This is a team game and there's no I in Team.

All:

We have NOT changed the loot system. I have no idea what Kaasi is talking about regarding changes to loot rules. THE LOOT SYSTEM HAS NOT CHANGED. We wrangled with changing values because we figured out that the system is pretty good as it stands and REWARDS MEMBERS FOR PARTICIPATION. We wanted to help the folks with less DKP catch up for gaining trophies.

Secondly, we have NEVER had a member sit on DKP to get one item. That's not what we're about. Technically, you could wait forever for a drop while your teammates suit up for the next instance which a better item will drop. This is a game of math if you havent noticed. The SUM of a raids gear value is the major ingredient to success in boss "downage". Secondly, there isnt one single piece of gear that is going to make a player, nor his raid composition. (I'll call that "CREYMORE RULES".)

The loot system is the right one for our guild. We just need to make sure the values are correct. Anyone that does not agree with the system is free to find happiness elsewhere. I assure you that our system is more than fair, including the additional bonuses members have received for progression.

Lets keep these things in mind:

1. If a teammate gets gear, essentially, so do you - unless you plan on leaving - then you might complain about gear.

2. DKP system is not perfect, and if there was a perfect one, I'd like to see and see it administered. Its a huge pain in the rear as it is.

3. Have we been cheating members out of gear? Hardly - we're all lucky to be in a guild where the vent is paid for, the raids are assembled for you, and a pretty damn good set of toons is killing stuff so you can even have the OPPORTUNITY to even SEE these bosses.

4. Regarding the comment concerning listening to members - If anyone has had any concerns, I certainly havent been notified. Comments like Creymore's post, maturely and informatively written, are always welcome.

5. I'm tired of hearing the complainers. Next person that yells at me in vent, whines, or acts like an ass, officers included, will be permanently excused. You are killing it for me, and the rest of the group with your negativity. So, if "all my friends have left for the horde" and you have no friends here anymore - either shut up and contribute, or go join your friends so you can be in another guild that only lasts 5 months.

Tess

Just wanted to start by saying thanks for all the hard work Tess. It is appreciated by most of us even though you don't hear it all the time And WOOHOO I got a rule For all the new faces, this is a GREAT guild that has been around for quite some time. I am always glad to see new people in the mix. Just wanted to elaborate a bit more on what Tess posted, as most of them are points I brought up.

Lets keep these things in mind:

1. If a teammate gets gear, essentially, so do you - unless you plan on leaving - then you might complain about gear.
A - This is a concept most people don't seem to grip, through greed they seem to just focus on themselves and forget that if the raid isn't geared up, new bosses wont go down.

2. DKP system is not perfect, and if there was a perfect one, I'd like to see and see it administered. Its a huge pain in the rear as it is.
B- I recommended a different loot system a few post down, in all honesty I now feel I went about it the wrong way and apologize. If you actually read through it all, it isn't a whole lot different from where we are now. The whole reason I suggested it was to make your life easier as it has lots of addons that make it easy to handle. As it stands with all the mods to Zero sum we have right now, addons don't help much. I will reiterate for emphasis, and eliminate any possible strife before it starts, the loot system I proposed was only a "SUGGESTION" and final approval always lies with the guild leader.

3. Have we been cheating members out of gear? Hardly - we're all lucky to be in a guild where the vent is paid for, the raids are assembled for you, and a pretty damn good set of toons is killing stuff so you can even have the OPPORTUNITY to even SEE these bosses.
C- Hard to cheat people out of gear when they don't even seem to want it. Feels like we have to push more and more for people to take the gear than anything.

4. Regarding the comment concerning listening to members - If anyone has had any concerns, I certainly havent been notified. Comments like Creymore's post, maturely and informatively written, are always welcome.
D- Can't really add to this.

5. I'm tired of hearing the complainers. Next person that yells at me in vent, whines, or acts like an ass, officers included, will be permanently excused. You are killing it for me, and the rest of the group with your negativity. So, if "all my friends have left for the horde" and you have no friends here anymore - either shut up and contribute, or go join your friends so you can be in another guild that only lasts 5 months.
E- This probably gets under my skin more than anything... Tess pays to play just like us, don't make him pay to be a babysitter. It does no good for anyone to behave like this. If you have something to say, do it respectfully and maturely, and more people are likely to listen to you. Changing boss strats on the fly, while helpful sometimes, have to be brought up more like a business proposal than the lackluster disrespectful way they come across now. Quote sources, make valid points (I.E. we usually do it this way because we are melee heavy, tonight we are range heavy and X source says X strat is more efficient with this comp), and most of the time you will be heard. I think a lot of this happens due to excitement/emotions, or "being in the moment" as some call it. It really doesn't help though, so breath a little bit, then talk.

Thank you for the post Creymore your input is much appriciated.

Zolar